- Jiang Ling said even at an old age, “easy to find paid, meaningful coding projects, perhaps at home”. Xia Rong agreed. I kinda prefer an office environment, but if the work location is far away, at least there exists an option to take it on remotely.
- see j4 dev-till-70
- — #1 factor is brain health. See my blog tag. I believe I’m in control of my destiny.
- — #2 factor is demand
- Wall St contract market is age-friendly —  y WallSt_contract=my best Arena #Grandpa
- c++ is good skillset for older guys. Core java is also good.
- — #3 factor is my competitiveness among candidates. See Contract: unattractive to young developers
- cloud? but ask Zhao Bin
- big data
- machine learning
Context — professional (high or low end) programmer career till my 70’s. The #1 derailer is not physical health  but my eventual decline of “brain power” including …?
 CSY and Jenny Lu don’t seem to agree.
This discussion is kinda vague, and my own thoughts are likely limited in scope, not systematic. Therefore, external inputs are extremely useful. I posed the same questions to multiple friends
Q2: what can I do now given my dev-till-70 plan defined above.
Q1: how do I keep my brain healthy, and avoid harmful stress?
— Josh felt that the harmful stress in his job was worse in his junior years when he didn’t know the “big picture”. Now he feels much better because he knows the full context. I said “You are confident you can hold your end of the log. Earlier you didn’t know if you were good enough.”
— Grandpa gave the Marx example — in between intense research and writing, Marx would solve math problems to relax the brain. I said “I switch between algo problem solving and QQ knowledge”
— Alex V of MS — Ask yourself
Q: compare to the young grads, what job function, what problems can you handle better? My mental picture of myself competing against the young guys is biased against my (valuable) battlefield experience. Such experience is discounted to almost $zero in that mental picture!
When I told Alex my plan to earn a living as a programmer till 70, Alex felt I definitely need a technical specialization. Without it, you have very little hope competing with people 40 years younger. I said I intend to remain a generalist. Alex gave some examples of skills younger people may not have the opportunity to learn.
- low-latency c++
- c++ memory mgmt
- specific product knowledge
- — I said
- .. I have a few skillist blogposts related to this
Mental gymnastics is good, like board games and coding practice and Marx’s math practice, but all of these are all secondary to (hold your breath) … physical workout, including aerobic and strength training! I personally enjoy outdoor exercise more than anything else.
Also important is sleep. I think CSDoctor and grandpa are affected.
Sudhir hinted that lack of time affects sleep, workout and personal learning.
- Me: I see physical exercise and sleep as fundamental “protections” of my brain. You also pointed out when we reach home we often feel exhausted. I wonder if a shorter commute would help create more time for sleep/workout and self-study. If yes, then is commute is a brain-health factor?
- Sudhir: Absolutely, shorter commutes are always better, even if that means we can only afford smaller accommodation. Or look for a position that allows working remotely some of the time.
Sudhir also felt (due to current negative experience) an encouraging team environment is crucial to brain health. He said mental stress is necessary, but fear is harmful. I responded “Startup might be better”.
–Jenny Lu felt by far the most important factor is consistent physical exercise to maintain vitality. She felt this is more important than mental exercise.
I said it is hard to maintain consistency. She replied that it is doable and necessary.
–Junli…. Felt mental exercise and physical exercise are both important.
When I asked him what I can do to support dev-till-70, he identified several demand-side factors —
- He mentioned 3 mega-trends — cloud; container; micro-service.
- Serverless is a cloud feature.
- He singled out Spring framework as a technology “relevant till our retirement time”
— CSY pointed out the risk of bone injury.
He said a major bone injury in old age can lead to immobility and the start of a series of declines in many body parts.
— XR’s demand-oriented answer is simple– keep interviewing. He felt this is the single most effective thing I can do for dev-till-70.
This is an important topic for the researchers. As laymen, I will just reflect on my personal experience — looki.
What kind of activity is considered “work”? I feel it’s the responsibility or commitment, obligation, consequences on users -> fear …
Most but not all the “work” is tiring. I suppose creative work can help keep the brain young.
- IT — Learning a new tech in body-building mode doesn’t feel tiring to me, but how about to XR?
- IT — A big chunk of everyday IT work (including troubleshooting) is partly creative and investigative. Can be brain-boosting.
- Kids doing homework – can be tiring but at their age it won’t speed brain aging. How about adults?
Need to listen to the inside signals when working the long hours. When I work day and night on coding assignments, I was like my Dad and perhaps CSDoctor. I was driven by joy and burning pleasure, not pressure like in Stirt and GS. I feel my body knows if the pressure is positive or negative, pleasure or pain, so better listen to the signals and avoid aggravating the aging process.
Sudhir told me about encouraging environment vs fear… See blogpost on 5 external inputs
A.Brooks talked about innovative brain power. I’m talking about memory capacity.
Now I see that localSys on a big system is taxing on the aging memory. I guess GregM (RTS) might be a cautionary tale. GregM relied on his theoretical knowledge to pass interviews, but not fast enough with local codebase
Is green field better than brown-field codebase? I guess so, based on personal experience. Green-field projects are rarely given to a new joiner but contractors are often hired on green field budget — like Citi, 95G, volFitter and RTS 🙂
Now consider this separate question:
Q: Are the c++11 QQ topics a form of churn on the interview arena?
A: Yes but c++11 QQ is lighter (on the aging memory) than localSys
Q: how about the Coding IV?
A: still lighter stress than localSys.
As I get older I believe my brain needs more frequent mini-breaks, but I think sometimes my breaks become distractions. The more treacherous “breaks” tend to be
- personal investment — Eliminate !
- generic tech learning, unrelated to current project
— sense of urgency — When taking these breaks, A sense of urgency is what I need, but I favor a relaxed sense of urgency.
— focus — frequent mini-breaks should not affect my focus at work. I might need to avoid chitchats.
I think it’s possible to maintain or enhance my focus by taking breaks.
— stay late — Frequent breaks often require longer hours. I should prefer coming early, but in reality I often stay late.
— I also want to avoid long sit-down sessions. The breaks give relief to my eyes, neck, back, shoulder etc.
I am always looking for low-churn, accumulating skillset that I can rely on after age 50, without strenuous effort. Such effort is possibly harmful for the brain.
My chosen domains are not white hot domains attracting the young bright kids. I always hope to pick up these skills and try to build them into my “portfolio” of skill assets. If 3 out of 5 decline, I still have the other assets to provide meaningful employment till 70. I have more listed in my spreadsheets “techBets” + “marketableDomains”
- 😦 #1 example Quant dev — turns out to be too competitive. Low churn but I need strenuous effort even now.. see quant≠sure good for aging dev (also ruthless march@technology)
- 🙂 mkt data — feels better
- 🙂 bond math — feels even better
- VaR math?
- algo trading — I didn’t choose it because too competitive
- — technical skills
- 🙂 python — worked out well
- 😦 c# — abandoned
- 😦 swing — abandoned
- 😦 MOM — fell out of fashion
The most common source of everyday hazardous stress on my brain is coworker benchmark by speed of figure-things-out on localSys.
My focus today is on this hazardous stress.
If you stay for x years, then the localSys experience would enhance the speed of figure-things-out, and reduce the hazardous stress on the brain. This accumulation takes place naturally, but you do need to “apply yourself”, otherwise you won’t know even the basics.
In rare cases, a bright new joiner can acquire better localSys knowledge than old timers. Eg: Avichal, Yang. Viswa
bigger picture — Josh pointed out that knowledge of the bigger picture greatly reduces the hazardous stress.
 Note when the figure-out is NOT about localSys, then I am NOT slower than colleagues. Among other things I’m good at online research and reading documentation.
On a side note, staying too long in one system could lead to boredom and stagnation, not good for the brain, but I believe this is not as harmful as the hazardous stress. Note by “boredom” I don’t mean the initial honeymoon of engagement, but rather the boredom after 5Y. Learning some new technology is one “easy” and safe way to keep the brain active and engaged. Relatively low expectation.
Background – “how fast you figure things out relative to your peers”.
For each team member AA, the struggle is the same — AA’s brain power vs the cumulative brain power that has gone into the local system which measures the complexity. If the local system complexity is too high then AA would struggle and take a long time (before he gives up).
The “local system” could include firmwide frameworks, or something open-source.
I prefer a local system created by low site-specific brain power, like one with standard SQL/stored-procs, standard noSQL, standard data encoding (FIX, Json..), standard java/c++ libraries, including OSS.
- RTS and OC – relatively small amount of site-specific brain power in the system.
- PWM comm – actually small amount of local system complexity but time given is too short
- Barc – brand new codebase .. low site-specific brain power.
- Quartz — the worst
The west-coast style of CIV is effective for anti-aging, just like yoga and competitive sports. I hope I am up to the game and can continue to play the game. I see many people gave up after an initial growth phase.
More anti-aging than QQ and other form of learning.
I believe our mind (esp. our memory) is like a muscle. If we don’t seriously use it, it tends to age, weaken and lose capacity. Over the last 5 years, i spent 2009-2011 in the US on my own — tremendous learning and improvement, perhaps the most active learning period in my professional life. Then after I came back to SG, i studied financial math program, c#/dotnet, python and more c++.
I feel the serious study keeps my mind active. However, over the last 18 months, I notice various signs of my learning capacity reducing, but it’s not all due to aging —
- biggest factor is lack of concentration, due to kids and family commitment
- not enough time to periodically re-visit each topic,
After all, I feel it’s vital and paramount to keep our mind in constant learning mode. 活到老学到老.
Learning a tech is not 100% all about getting the job done or getting better jobs, even though that’s about 99% of it, admittedly.
A few colleagues (a tiny minority) at my various jobs seem to enjoy the learning process, even proprietary technologies with low market value. Learning tech can be a joy. In such a context, or such a geek, don’t mention “saving time”.
As mentioned in the title + first email, I feel our brain is like learning machine, and like a muscle. (I guess chess is also a kind of brain exercise…) Any such exercise is never a waste of time.
Some people make a decision to learn something (Spanish? Wu-bi Chinese input? musical instrument) even when they are as busy as we are. I guess Learning a technology is sometimes like that.
However, I (grudgingly) agree it’s not so fun learning, say, java struct, for years and then see it falling out of favor. I carefully pick the low-churn technologies, like you would pick watermelons at the supermarket:) See my earlier email